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« As Chinese society becomes less Confucian, Japanese society becomes more Daoist | Main | Remembering the Great Leap Forward »

December 16, 2010

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Ahistoricality

I'm sorry, but the "decline effect" in medical research - a notoriously complex field to begin with, compounded with immense financial pressures and egos - is not grounds for radical skepticism of the scientific method itself, nor a rejection of the idea that science studies something real about which true things can be said.

Manyul Im

Yeah, I was just reading this, Sam. I thought it started interesting then it seemed like the problems were less with method than with practice -- i.e. the practices of publishing and reporting findings. Is that really encompassed by "scientific method"? Maybe in a broad sense. This is like criticizing the method though by invoking the sociology of the scientific community, which might reveal problematic flows of information, but doesn't really seem to me to touch on the method.

(I actually thought the article was going to end up with some new "new problem of induction" from the scientists' side, not from the analytic philosophers'. Alas, not.)

Marc

Just a comment on Popper. Saying that he equated science with conjecture isn't exactly accurate, I think. He pointed out the limits of what is provable, which gave science a more solid footing, and did say that if we see a series of points on a graph that form a smooth curve, we assume that we didn't happen to miss all the wildly divergent points, but his conclusion wasn't that science was therefore conjecture. The lesson was: collect as much data as you can.

Sam

Thanks for the comments.
Manyul,
I, too, was expecting a stronger argument in the article, based on the title. But I think that the piece does point to a fairly significant methodological problem: the vagaries of replicability. I was most taken by the section that described an attempt to carry out the exact same experimental procedure in three different locations simultaneously. Even with rather strict scientific controls there were significant variations across locations, suggesting that any of a myriad of small chance events can disrupt the findings of any particular experiment. And without replicability, it is difficult to know what is random and what is systematic.
Ahistoricality,
I am not as radical as Zhuangzi himself. But I think skepticism is usually a good thing. The key point here, I believe, is not that it is impossible to say that true things cannot be said, but that it is rather hard to know when a true thing is said, and that is especially important to keep in mind when talking about medicine.
Marc,
You may be right, but I am remembering certain passages from The Logic of Scientific Discovery; like this:

"We can never know, of course, whether a supposed law is a genuine law or whether it only looks like a law but depends, in fact, upon certain special initial conditions prevailing in our region of the universe... We cannot, therefore ever find out of any given non-logical statement that it is in fact naturally necessary: the conjecture that it is remains a conjecture for ever (not merely because we cannot search our whole world in order to ensure that no counter instance exists, but for the even stronger reason that we cannot search all worlds that differ from ours with respect to initial conditions)...." (454)

So, perhaps it would be better to say that the product of science is conjecture.

Ahistoricality

No, the product of science is data and theories (sometimes in the form of equations) that both fit the data and predict future outcomes. "Theory" doesn't mean "conjecture" or "guess": it means a coherent, discrete explanation that fits the data and predicts future outcomes. For a much more detailed discussion of Lehrer's article, Orac's your man.

Sam

Thanks for the link. Good piece. But I think Orac would agree that "theory" is closer to "conjecture" than it is to "truth." He says:
"Indeed. I would argue that there is really no such thing as scientific "truth.""
I agree.

TFF


"Truth" is not attainable in this world, as we know it.

Read this Sam Crane (Name: See)

I can't email you because of Apple's email program.

I just thought you might want to check out Chinese Poetry by David Hinton, but more like an Anthology of Classical Chinese Poetry. Just thought you might be interested. Here is the Google site to check it out. Link:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,17291,24283,27615&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=david+hinton+chinese+poetry&cp=17&qe=ZGF2aWQgaGludG9uIGNoaW4&qesig=c3QTcodxEpuxFu6e3mPkDw&pkc=AFgZ2tl5Cw9DTc0J5fhLh760lmcw_ZUyWu3VTfnovafvwTge4jM4C0ZZO2y2TmNE6oivsx4fE1bKRbWW2vNYNHzr0DFP6QpoQw&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=david+hinton+chin&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=e64ee6e4e8056c32

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