My Photo
Follow UselessTree on Twitter

Zhongwen

Nedstat



  • eXTReMe Tracker
Blog powered by Typepad
Member since 07/2005

« Joy in Chuang Tzu | Main | Confucius in Taiwan, again »

April 09, 2008

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

I agree--the competition should be held at a permanent location. Unfortunately, it's probably not likely to happen, because the interest and thus money generated by the nationalism stirred up when this event takes place makes the IOC happy. There probably wouldn't be very many people with the enthusiasm Zheng xiansheng seems to have for the games without this element.

Growing up, I was always taught that the Olymics was a time when nations put aside their differences and competed in a sports arena. Even nations that were at war! I think this is a fine ideal to aspire to. I don't see anything wrong with having a non-violent nationalist outlet. The problem is that there are too few of these sorts of things which, IMHO, leads to more wanton sabre-ratting.

Guy,
Yeah, but the 20th century has witnessed a powerful politicization of the Olympics - the struggle for the prestige and status of hosting the games, the whole Nazi thing, the Munich tragedy, the boycotts, etc. During the Cold War it was all about nationalism. I will even go so far as to criticize that most glorious moment of US Olympic victory: the 1980 hockey gold medal. It was a great game (I watched it on TV as it happened), but it is always embedded in a "we beat the Russians (i.e. Communists)" narrative. The sports of the Olympics are invariably used for nationalist purposes, and that, I believe, tends to drive people further a part than it brings them together. I am, as is likely obvious, a fairly settled anti-nationalist.

Personally, I think the Planet should be de-nationalized.

Oh, I agree it has been powerfully politicized. Heck, I imagine there has always been a political element to it (though in Greece, the medal went to the athlete, not his nation-state and I recognize the distinction). I just don't think that offering a ritualized outlet for nationalism is a bad thing. Humans are very good at dividing people into "us" and "them". No reason to not offer a safe outlet for that sort of thing.

Even China itself has only 3000 years of history, starting with Huangdi, and it is exaggerated to 5000. This is math with Chinese characteristics.

Olympic Games was used by Greeks to settle war. There is no less political event than the original Games. The modern games has always been political. Just see what China did in 1980, and their promise of improving human rights and the environment when bidding for the games, and the involvement by Chinese Foreign Ministry in all Olympic events. The head of the Beijing Games is a politician, and is getting that job because he is a politician.

Let the political game begin!!!

"Even China itself has only 3000 years of history, starting with Huangdi, and it is exaggerated to 5000. This is math with Chinese characteristics."

"John Chinaman--What Shall We do with Him?"( if we cann't teach them how to count!)

Just to be clear, the above comment comes from an ip address that Isha has used to comment here. Is that you, Isha? I ask because I am uncomfortable with the use of the term "Chinaman," which has never, I believe, been used in this manner on this blog before - certainly not by me and, I think, not by any of my commenters.

Sam:

Sorry for using another name, since I didn't have time to write a long enough post to clarify my position this morning. Anyway, I don't feel Chinaman has any racial slur connotations, actually, the "Chinese" does, because all the "eses" has a connotations that they’re "small", "oriental", "foreign", "far-eastern"( if not, subhuman), etc. ( For example, explaining Chinese resistance to Japan’s conquest to China to the West, Prof and humorist Lin Yutang said “ They ( mean Japanese) don’t have a Chinaman’s chance.) Actually, this phrase is quoted as an ironic reference for the eternal question, a dilemma for the Anglo-Saxon elites, and it is still relevant now just as it is 139 ( did I do my math right, Bill, I used my Texas Instrument calculator) years ago. Just read all the frustrations and hurt feelings the reports from CNN, BBC on Tibet and Olympic relays.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D06E2DC103AEF34BC4151DFB0668382679FDE
John Chinaman--What Shall We do with Him?
June 29, 1869, Wednesday

“Each day the Chinese question comes upon us with fuller prominence and grander proportions. And by "the Chinese question" we mean, of course, that special one which dwarfs all other Chinese questions into insignificance, namely, the relations of China to America...”

Sounds like it is a reporting from SF early this week…

Is any respectful communications still feasible? Too often, the bloggers on CNN and BBC expressed the same logic, same justifications, same self-righteousness, same superiority complex as their ancestors did exactly 139 years ago. There is a different these gentlemen forgot: they are dealing with a nation that has waken up and organized and a lot of sweats, tears and blood have been shred for them to the get there and they wouldn’t be pushed around on the block any more.

Sam, like you, I've been following the struggle over the Olympic torch relay closely. Several years ago, I have been blaming CCP for organizing this Olympic thing in the first place, if nothing else, CCP should have used the billions they spent on Olympic on education, on improving Chinese students’ math skills so they could build some airplanes like Airbus so the French wouldn’t be so arrogant and silly. But the worldwide anger, insult, jealousy, distrust and general hard feelings these torch bearers received as the hands of their hosting countries is working as a waking up call, well worth the dollar bills they spend (the IOUs are depreciating anyway). After, China, just like the United States, could only be defeated by itself. So, 2008 might well be historically significant …Bill, you are right, it is nothing but a political game , and it was well planned by both sides, but it might take generations before the significance would be fully appreciated… by future historians? (Hope they could dip up some of our posts here)


By the way, Bill, do you read Chinese, here is a link from oversea Chinese forum on the Olympic relay, I guess most of them don’t believe the Olympic’s 5000 years history and not as stupid as you think
http://www.webjb.org/webjb/sanxian/

Sam, just from curiosity, I would like to know your standing on this since I am reading a book on the glorious epic of Texas…

1. From the historical and legal point of view, do China have more title to Tibet or do U.S. have more title to Texas?
2. From a human right point of view, do Tibetan Chinese have more rights and dignity in China or do “illegal aliens” (most of them are decedents from Native Americans…such as Hispanics) have more rights and dignity in U.S.?

What do you think?


Respectfully,

Isha

Isha, the only issue I'm going to take with your rather long-winded and confusing comment is with this rather absurd statement:

"Anyway, I don't feel Chinaman has any racial slur connotations, actually, the "Chinese" does, because all the "eses" has a connotations that they’re "small", "oriental", "foreign", "far-eastern"( if not, subhuman), etc."

"Chinaman" has always been used in a derogatory since, but the "-ese" suffix never has. Try these on for size: "Singaporean", "Malaysian", "Indonesian", "Indian"- all "Oriental", all traditionally looked down upon by the West and yet all taking the same suffix as "Italian", "Russian" or "German". "Small" is not a part of this at all, and "foreign" is only relevant so far as it is a statement of fact.

Sam: These questions, which are related to your original post, hopefully are not too confusing or challenging for you:

1. From the historical and legal point of view, do China have more title to Tibet or do U.S. have more title to Texas?
2. From a human right point of view, do Tibetan Chinese have more rights and dignity in China or do “illegal aliens” (most of them are decedents from Native Americans…such as Hispanics) have more rights and dignity in U.S.?


Respectfully,

Isha

The comments to this entry are closed.

Aidan's Way

  • :


    Understanding disability from a Taoist point of view

Globalpost