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« This just in: a black man can be Chinese... | Main | More (just a bit more) on the Jackie Chan thing »

April 19, 2009

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I really doubt that Jackie Chan was trying to curry favour. Maybe I'm just naive. I think he loves his country as much as anyone else.

I definitely agree with Sam's observation about "class-based society." Another manifestation of this is when people talk about the one-child policy. People would say, "There are too many people in China. Look at our peasants."

Actually, even a few years ago, when I was going to high-school in Vancouver, I was always surprised when my mainlander classmates made fun of people by calling them peasants (nongmin). Seems like the classic classist put-down.

"had all read it in the original Chinese and still found Chan's statements to be extremely racist"

Did you read the WHOIL transcripts? or only part of it, tailored by the partisan reporters, such as the ones from Taiwan? Chen didn't hide his disdain for Taiwan's current regime, even though that has already hurt his market there.


If you listen to his speech, you can see that he is not the one who can express himself as good as he wish ... he had a elementary school education and he is not the match for those who manipulate languages for a living ...

"Chan's statements to be extremely racist"
===================================================

Chen "racist"? To whom? what a laughing stock! Do you have some common sense? Look at the songs at the earthquake and his donation...Chen doesn't hide that he is a lover of China and Chinese, for that and for that only, he is accused as "racist" ...

He has more humanity that many of you combined...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_f4OOWd-mI&feature=related

http://shanghaiist.com/2008/05/15/celebrity_power.php
Film star Jackie Chan has donated RMB10million to help those in need following the earthquake in Sichuan province. Other celebrities have also dipped into their wallets. From CriEnglish:

"Jackie Chan also sent his consolation to the quake victims and encouraged them to hold on as "people all over the country are with you," the star said.

The One Foundation initiated by kungfu star Jet Li has made a donation of one million yuan and volunteers as well as medical experts under the organization have also headed for Sichuan.

Basketball star Yao Ming, who is currently in the United States for his injury treatment, donated 500,000 yuan upon hearing the news."


Meanwhile, Supergirl Li YuChun (李宇春) yesterday joined a group of other singers and Chinese celebrities in donating blood in Beijing, singing a song, and sending her best wishes to the people affected in Sichuan. If you would like to donate blood please read this post for more information, obviously all donations are welcome and needed.

isha,
What has that got to do with Jackieoff wanting being Hitler? You're so star struck to even realize the donation is only for PR purposes. Do you even see how you got suckered into believing it? like promoting for them right now in this post? Why dont you donate some real time to the cause instead of recycling the same PR lines?
SHALLOW & DUMB

Chinese need to be controlled? Yes! Of course, so do Amereicans, if they were properly controlled,this depression would not happen.
What is politics, according to Suen Yet Sin, the founding father of modern China, politics is the management of people's (nation's) affair, and if you are not good at controlling people of your nation and let the go their democratic way, you hurn everyone in your country.

Chinese need to be controlled? Yes! Of course, so do Amereicans, if they were properly controlled,this depression would not happen.
=========================================================

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010108/20001226

Capitalism is falling apart. Tires explode, utility rates skyrocket, pharmaceuticals kill patients, telephone service is a mess, airports are gridlocked, broadcasters rip off scarce airwave spectrum for free and salmon in the Northwest are becoming transgendered and unable to breed. Even successful dot-commers are an endangered species.

...
Deregulation and the Financial Crisis

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/deregulation-and-the-fina_b_82639.html


SHALLOW & DUMB

Did you donate anything for the victims?

If not, shut up!

If you donate your money, I would congratuate you and I don't care whether you are doing it for your PR purpose or not.

Fenqing very need girlfriend.

Back on topic: Orientalism is a Western discourse, not a Chinese one. Jackie Chan is participating in a particular Chinese discourse which is unrelated to Orientalism (Western views on China, not Chinese views on China). It has certain similarities, but only by virtue of its being a power discourse. This particular Chinese discourse is also a discourse of power, specifically one which seeks to perpetuate the status quo and preserve the current balance of power in the hands of those who hold it.

To put it another way: Jackie Chan is sucking up to the Party. But this [Chinese] discourse which he is pandering to, and the line of reasoning that goes with it, is something much older than the Gong Chan Dang. This discourse has been running through Chinese culture for a long time. And it has nothing to do with us laowai. There is no racism here. There are only Chinese people involved in this discourse. Classism most definitely, and even regional ethnic rivalry, but it's mainly just politics and power.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that everyone has framed the issue in terms of racism or 'Orientalism'. You're applying Western cultural concepts; you're seeing the issue through your own cultural lens.

Robert:

This one is from a Fenqing, but I guess he is highly regulated by his wife, therefore, no girlfriend is needed...


成龙“中国人是要管的”意见提纲


老王

1、“中国人是要管的”,有什么错?满世界一片挞伐,问罪追杀?难道我们过去没听
过这类意见吗?听得多了,太多了!怎么就不见对这些人挞伐、追杀?相反,从来而
且至今是一片叫好?我们听听,熟不熟悉:


“英国人把香港治理得好啊!”“主权换治权吧!”--什么意思?“中国香港人是要
英国人管的”!


“日本人把台湾治理得好啊!”“台湾人怀念日本统治啊!”--什么意思?“中国台
湾人是要日本人管的!”


“圆明园烧得好啊!”,“八国联军进北京进得好啊!”,“欢迎美国大兵日本皇军今
天打来北京啊!”“中国还需要三百年殖民统治,才能改造中国人的奴性啊!”--什
么意思?“全中国人通通都是要管的!”,通通都是应该被西方帝国主义国家管的!
而且要管几百年。


怎么这些的话除了叫好,出国“领奖”,就不见人讨伐、反对?是没听见过吗?网上网
下没听见过的人举手?我看,不会有人举手。因为都听过,耳熟能详。
听过怎么不反对?偏要反对成龙?岂不又是双重标准?秘密在哪里?
秘密就在,“中国人是要管的”,在他们那里其实没错的。看谁管。西方帝国主义来
管,来分裂,来肢解中国,那是欢天喜地的,一定要欢迎的。欢迎的就是“人权”,不欢迎
就是“愤青”的。这里,成龙的意思是谁管呢?他没说,但现在中国谁在管?共产党在管。
因此,自然理解,成龙的意思是,“中国人要共产党管”。那就不行,那就要问罪,要
讨伐,要追杀!


所以,当今一片的反对“中国人是要管的”,是假的,是假批判。焦点根本不在是不是
“中国人是要管的”,而是中国人应该被谁管?


2、老王的意见是,中国人既不需要共产党“管”,更不需要西方帝国主义列强管。还是
毛主席说得好,中国人民要“自己教育自己、自己解放自己。自己管理自己”(大意)。
结果还是要管,不能无政府主义,“为所欲为”。但这本质是人民自己的管,是在民主
基础上的严明法制的“管”。成龙的原意,可以理解为他反对无政府主义,主张法制下
的自由。若是这样,无大错。他是艺员,又生性率直,这类政治性的表述,不甚准确
,容易误解或被蓄意歪曲罢了。而中国人应该被西方国家管,则是学贯天人的“教授”
“精英”们的表述啊。


3、中国最终的目标是中国人自己民主来管。但今天确实还不行。老王从来赞成孙中山先
生的“军政、训政、宪政”三步民主方略。共产党最大的错误,是它迄今不承认中国的
最终目标,是向全民共奉的民主宪政发展,而要片面的坚持永远的自家一党专政。60年
过去的失误已经过去,今后中国的民主宪政方向一定要确立下来。中国最大多数人民的
民主任务还不是反对今天共产党的“管”,而是要批判和反对共产党理论上对中国人民
永远“管”的特权。


4、成龙反对无政府主义的混乱,并列举了香港、台湾两个例子,是不准确的,可商议的。
香港不混乱。香港反对派,反对运动的活动,历来遵循着英治以来的法制的轨道,有个别
人的过激表演,不过是吸引公众眼球的手段,远未至于危害、动摇香港整体的法制精神。
何况,它还有中港双方都必须遵循且受国际监督的中英声明和《基本法》“管”制着。因
此,香港民主是建设性的民主,它迄今还是中国全国未来很好的民主试验田和样板。


台湾不同,台湾“民主”不在宪法法制的轨道上。台湾绿党,特别是它的承认日本对台法
权的皇民骨干集团,以推翻中华民国,否定中国南京宪法及其法统在台湾的合法性为职志
(有时唱唱“宪法”,也只为实用)。其政治上,极力消灭在台湾的“中国势力”,分裂
人民,尖锐岛内冲突,这种“民主”,是破坏性的“民主”,毁灭性的“民主”,本质是
在“民主”外衣掩盖下的革命。故台湾的一切无政府主义混乱,“为所欲为”,不是偶然
的,不是民主成熟的过程现象,确是因为失去了法制基础,失去了“管”。但也没有完
全失去,不然,早发生政治彻底消灭蓝色“外来政权”“中国势力”(“割喉割到断”)
的绿色法西斯革命了。为什么没有发生?且发生的可能性越来越小?就因为有一个“鸟笼”
在管!这“鸟笼”是陈水扁作了“总统”才恍然发现的,使他这个“总统”也不能为所欲
为 ---“办不到就是办不到”。这“鸟笼”是什么?就是笼罩在台湾之上的中国与美国联
合对台管制。而中国的管制力越来越强大,美国则在消退。在全中国的中国人尚未能达到
自己管理自己的民主宪政时代前,台湾的“中国人是要管的”!


2009年4月22日
美西海湾


Taiwan democrazy in action ...

http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=taiwan&MsgID=394770

Isha, you are married?

You must be much older than me. For the longest time, I thought you were younger.

I think your comments are really amusing, but how do you find so much time for this?

So in the above post, is Laowang you? Is that your Chinese pen-name? How about Meixihaiawn? My geography is embarrassingly bad - what exactly is Meixihaiwan?

Isha,

I gotta tell you, your opinions read a lot better in Chinese: "The English managed Hong Kong so well! ... The Japanese managed Taiwan so well! ... Yuanmingyuan burned so well!" That's some good writing; it's balanced and packs a punch.

But when you guys write down your ideas in English, you come across as very nationalistic, very angry, and very war-like. You need to express you ideas more persuasively and less combatively. China has a serious public-image problem with the rest of the world. Some people are saying that the Chinese ruling class (including you and your parents in the Party) are beginning to act a lot like the Japanese did 100 years ago. You are at risk of becoming the thing you hate.

But it's not that, not really. You're just following the path where all power leads. China will soon be able to exert power as Japan once did. The dominant power in East Asia. It's heady stuff, isn't it? That feeling of power. Just don't screw it up and act like the Japanese did. There's a limit to the bitterness the lower-class Chinese people will eat. If you push your people too hard, they might rise up against you, as they have done many times in Chinese history, breaking away from Beijing and taking up with a local warlord. Don't go too far. Be moderate in your greed and how hard you work the common Chinese earth people.

China has a serious public-image ( since when? well, yellow peril? How do all the chink improve their image? by committing massive suicide? or Jack London's solution for his Chinaman? ) problem with the rest of the world ( what is that? ) .

...

That feeling of power. Just don't screw it up and act like the Japanese did. ( as in Iraq and Afhan? the feeling of power by raining death from afar? )

Be moderate in your greed ( Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the greediest of us all ? )

got to run. have a nice weekend...

Isha,

That is actually pretty good, but it wasn't written by a fenqing. Lao Wang's article actually advocates for democracy. The Chinese yearn for democracy. But there is always the danger, throughout Chinese history, of disorder, chaos, and regional secession. As a matter of language, the Chinese use the word 'freedom' with substantially negative connotations. A better translation, for Chinese purposes, would be "profligacy" or "Id-driven anarchy". That much better represents the Chinese usage of the term. The word "freedom", as used in Europe and America, is a very loaded term. It is loaded semantically and discursively. So much of our national education in primary school and secondary school, and our resultant ideology, is loaded with the term "freedom", that it is very difficult to even discuss the concept with other countries. It would be the equivalent of Americans' and Europeans' dismissing the effect of colonialism and Japanese aggression on the Chinese consciousness. People in the West are too attached to the notion of freedom, and in a much different way than you see it.

My posts don't seem to be going through.

Anyway, Isha, if Lao Wang has a Chinese wife like mine, there's no way she would let him spend so much time online.

In fact, I'd better go before she asks what I'm doing.

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